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Topic:   Coldwell Banker Question - 3954 visits (1 today, 1 this week)

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 14, 2005 03:22 PM            

Has anyone used the Coldwell Banker concierge service to market their inspection business.

I stopped in one of the Illinois offices and was told the only way Coldwell Banker would recommend your business was to sign up with the service. I have no idea what it costs if anything or how it works. Has anyone signed up for it and is there a cost?

I haven't heard anything one way or the other about this.

Scott Patterson
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posted June 14, 2005 04:04 PM            

No, I do not as it is unethical and illegal in many states.

It is also goes against my professional associations Code of Ethics. I think that NAHI and NACHI allow it.

We, as a profession need to fight pay for referral programs like the CB concierge program. It hurts the consumer and the profession.

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BEN KELLY
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posted June 14, 2005 04:45 PM            

I think that NAHI and NACHI allow it.

It wouldnt hurt to be sure!

Scott Patterson
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posted June 14, 2005 05:20 PM            

quote:

---

I think that NAHI and NACHI allow it.
It wouldn't hurt to be sure!

---

After reading their COE's I can't find anything that says a member can't participate in a pay for referral type program. It needs to be spelled out for all to see so it is not left up to individual interpretation.

Joseph Burkeson
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posted June 14, 2005 05:36 PM            

Scott Patterson said... "No, I do not as it is unethical and illegal in many states.
It is also goes against my professional associations Code of Ethics. I think that NAHI and NACHI allow it."

I know for a fact that NACHI's CoE does not allow it, furthermore Nick has attempted to expose this practice whenever possible.

I have no knowledge of NAHI as I am not a member, but if they do endorse this practice then it is far worse than the supposed crimes and misdemeanors attributed to NACHI on this website.

Joe Burkeson

Darren Miller
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posted June 15, 2005 04:54 AM            

Hey Joe:

How would you compare Coldwell banker to the "Brinks Job"?

Darren

Scott Patterson
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posted June 15, 2005 05:35 AM            

I agree that Nick has stated he is against the pay for referral programs, but it is not in print that I can find. It needs to be simply stated in the COE.

As for comparing the Brinks kickback program, it is a reverse type referral program. The inspector is being paid for the referral from Brinks.

They fall into the same category.

[This message has been edited by Scott Patterson (edited June 15, 2005).]

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 15, 2005 06:22 AM            

Another very large real estate group now doing the same thing in Illinois is Baird and Warner. In order to be considered by them for ispection work you must be accepted by their vendor referal service. Whatever that is. There's probably a fee for that as well.
Its apparent the large RE firms have a lock on the inspectors doing work for them.

Joseph Burkeson
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posted June 15, 2005 12:04 PM            

Scott,

Upon further investigation I find that you are correct. Last year Nick asked that the CoE be improved to disallow NACHI inspectors from engaging business through a concierge referral system, but I don't see that it was ever adopted.

Joe.

Rick Reeder
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posted June 15, 2005 07:22 PM            

I personally view paying for referrals or access to agents is not ethical and runs the risk of having inspectors who are afraid to have the courage to report their findings honestly. Just keep doing good inspections and be honest and fair with people and your business will succeed without having to fall for the payment trap.

I also think the Brinks referral payment is also unethical. Our clients did not hire us to promote other businesses who then try to sell them security systems and monitoring. That referral money ultimately comes from our client. Do they honestly know that?

I don't agree witht he opinion that it is a service. People can do their own resarch for security services.

I think that everyone who receives a Brinks fee should have a huge disclosure about it since that is truly along the lines of what the ethics guidelines in all the major associations in all about.

If you really want to know if something is right or wrong, just imagine yourself answering questions from Mike Wallace on 60 minutes to a live audience.

This isn't that difficult.

Just my 2 cents.

Rick

Erol Kartal
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posted June 16, 2005 07:57 PM         

Bill, don't pay any extortion fees to these Betty Big Hairs. You will be added to their list alright, but they still will only call their 'favorites' if you know what I mean.

Erol Kartal

Jeff Beck
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posted June 17, 2005 02:51 PM            

If the only requirement to be on their “recommended list” is cash/check or money order, I wonder what kind of value this can be for Prudential and Baird’s home buyers.
In realty, the agent still steers his/her buyer to the HI.
Paying for a concierge service is kind of like paying to have your brochure and business cards on display in realty office lobby. At least in my experience that’s been a big waste of time.
I also have talked to contractors listed on these sites and most regret spending the money to be listed. They say the leads aren’t qualified, they spend more time selling with fewer results and a lot of time doing just quotes.

Jeff

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 17, 2005 04:39 PM            

I don't know what the requirment is which is why I posted this. I assume its not free. I guess no one has used it or knows anyone who has or they would have answered.
I assume the same thing everyone has suggusted, its a pay for the priveledge of being listed and then you probably won't get any business. Probably the same as most of the services you would pay for.

Jerry McCarthy
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posted June 17, 2005 06:54 PM            

It's against the Business and Professions Code in California. (#7195 et al)

Jerry M

Ed Porter
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posted June 19, 2005 04:39 PM            

If you don't market to Realtors, this wouldn't affect you one bit.

------------------
Ed Porter - NAHI CRI
Cornerstone Home Inspection Services, Inc.
Grand Haven, MI

cshomeinspector.com

Rick Reeder
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posted June 19, 2005 06:29 PM            

Bill,

I apologize for not specifically addressing your question. When I was an area manager for a large national inspection company, another market area in our company joined the Coldwell-Banker concierge group at a price of $500 per month based on the large number of agents in the market and large number of inspectors we had in the particular market.

It was a complete waste of time. You gain nothing by paying the money. There is no special priviledge you gain by membership. You only gain the ability to enter offices, market agents, and place brochures.

For small inspection companies, I think the cost is $500 per year.

It is not a good value for what you get. The agents are under no obligation to use you and they truly won't use you if you are a really good inspector. A few of them actually said that their preferred inspector was not a deal blower.

If you are looking to increase your exposure to the agents in a cleaner way, here's a suggestion I have personally done with success.

I had some T shirts made up with my company info on them. These are for me, not to give out. I joined the local real estate association as an affiliate and signed up as a volunteer to help build a Habitat for Humanity house being sponsored by the association.

Two days a month, over several months, I worked all day with a large group of agents doing something good for a family and taking the time to get to know each other. When people get to know you in a more relaxed environment than a sales presentation, they get to see the real you.

This work led to several office presentations, the opportunity to teach continuing education classes to agents, and the acquisition of several very good agents who actually care about their clients. I have had many inspection referrals from these agents and even survived a few homes the client chose not to buy based on the defect list I presented.

Bottom line is that you can grow your business with successful marketing, but don't settle for something that is unethical and won't yield you results. Paying to belong to something that is in no way under an obligation to do anything for you is a waste of money and time.

Hope this is useful.

Rick

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 20, 2005 07:52 AM            

Rick:
Thats the information I was looking for, someone who knew the benefits (if any) and cost. I don't plan to join and probably wouldn't have but was curious.

The networking information is also useful. I wasn't aware I could join the realtor associaion as an associate, I'll have to call a friend of mine (realtor) and see when and where they meet. Thank you for the information.

Bill

Rick Hurst
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posted June 20, 2005 09:32 AM            

Any real estate company that calls you and asks you out of the blue they want to put you on their preferred list is a crock of you know what.

What they are really saying is we don't want to pay for the printing of the handouts we give to buyers and want you to pay for it.

When you get one of these calls ask who the call is and who they are with. You'll find most are with some advertising group just selling ad space for the real estate company.

Rick

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 20, 2005 09:45 AM            

Rick:

In my case I stopped in to see if they permitted inspector brochures. THats when the woman said I would have to join the concerige program and she gave me the form along with a contact to call. Thats why I asked if anyone had joined the program.

Rick Reeder
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posted June 20, 2005 11:09 AM            

Bill,

I specifically don't market Coldwell or Prudental for the same reason. Maybe others have had better success but my personal opinion is that it is a waste of time and money.

Good luck whatever you do.

Rick

Dennis Robitaille
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posted June 20, 2005 02:09 PM            

What's wrong with kick backs?
Nothing if you don't mind being sued.
http://www.independentinspectors.org/pdf-files/usinspect.pdf

Bruce Thomas
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posted June 20, 2005 05:07 PM            

Rick Reeder,
Habitat is an excellent idea. I've been thinking about it and seeing a lot about it on DIY network. I just looked it up on the web and found that we have a local chapter so I called to volunteer. (wait till my wife finds out, "you haven't finished the stuff around the house and you want to volunteer"?) Any way, even if there isn't an agent in site it's a good thing to do.

Now about CB. If it was just an advertising fee that's one thing but it's not. Back before I knew better we joined (no fee for inspectors). The overt and covert manipulation was overwhelming. One of my guys was a little too tough on a home that deserved it. All of a sudden we are unethical and off the list. When I called to ask why the coordinator couldn't tell me (I'll have to get back to you and never did even after several calls and letters)

One of my friendly competitors got a call demanding that he have his inspector change a report. He said he couldn't do it because the report was correct. The same coordinator said if you don't change the report then you're off the list. He again said no and it cost him 500 inspections a year. I applaud him and his company for their high standards.

The bottom line is don't let anything get between you and your client.

Bruce

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Make it a great day!

Russel Ray
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posted June 20, 2005 08:37 PM            

Such programs being illegal under California's Business and Professions Code, Section 7195 et al. is open to interpretation, although it's actually Section 7197:

Quote
7197. (a) It is an unfair business practice for a home inspector, a company that employs the inspector, or a company that is controlled by a company that also has a financial interest in a company employing a home inspector, to do any of the following:
(1) . . .
(2) . . .
(3) To offer or deliver any compensation, inducement, or reward to the owner of the inspected property, the broker, or agent, for the referral of any business to the inspector or the inspection company.
. . .
Unquote

When I looked at Coldwell Banker's Concierge program in 2001, the only reason I didn't join was because the contract they wanted me to sign basically gave them control of my company. I couldn't do that, particularly since I have a contract with my franchisor.

However, the Concierge program as it existed then was simply advertising, as most of these types of programs are. They don't refer any business to the companies that advertise with them, sponsor them, sign up for membership, or whatever. And they don't promise to, either. And therein lies the legal loophole why they can "get away with" such programs.

One-stop shopping is causing a proliferation in these Concierge-type programs, with names like Affiliate Business Arrangements, Preferred Vendor Lists, etc.

In checking out all the ones that I have (Keller Williams, Coldwell Banker, McMillin, some Prudential offices), not a single one has promised in any way, shape, or form to refer anyone to me. Not a single one offered exclusivity to any specific vendor in any specific category (home inspections, appraisals, etc). It was simply a way for them to make a little extra money off of all the people who wanted to talk with Realtors in those offices. So if I joined, they would simply allow me to put my brochures in their office, join a list of other such vendors, etc.

In fact, the Keller Williams office I visited a couple of months ago had quite a lengthy list of home inspectors who already were part of their Preferred Vendor List, many of them CREIA and ASHI names that I recognized.

I'm not the home inspector police, nor do I intend to be, but it seems like CREIA and ASHI and/or its members ought to be monitoring what their membership does if they consider such programs to be illegal, against their Codes of Ethics, etc.

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited June 20, 2005).]

Rick Reeder
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posted June 21, 2005 07:38 AM            

Russel,

I strongly agree with you about the enforcement of unthical activities by associations.

Thanks for your posting.

Rick

Richard Rushing
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posted June 21, 2005 07:55 AM            

Say What....

Quote
7197. (a) It is an unfair business practice for a home inspector, a company that employs the inspector, or a company that is controlled by a company that also has a financial interest in a company employing a home inspector, to do any of the following:
(1) . . .
(2) . . .
(3) To offer or deliver any compensation, inducement, or reward to the owner of the inspected property, the broker, or agent, for the referral of any business to the inspector or the inspection company.

Once an agent hands out a list inspectors-- they are referring the inspectors (on that list) and their companies to the buyer. Yes, it is a list of names... but you had to pay the brokerage to be put on that list and they are referring the list of inspectors simply because they paid the brokerage to do so.

There is no qualifying to be put on the list. It's like some associations... you pay up and your a member.

Jerry Mc is correct. People will always want to interpret things written to suit their wants and benefit. But, the way this thing is written, it is clearly "an unfair business practice".

Richard

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 08:07 AM            

If it were so "clearly" an unfair business practice, I suspect there would be only one or two minor players doing it. Instead, we have Prudential, Coldwell Banker, Keller Williams, etc., doing it. Those are major players, folks. They all have big-time attorneys on board who analyze those things. And it's not just an isolated incident among those big-time players. It's happening in office after office after office. To my business and marketing mind, it is great advertising revenue for them, and if I had a real estate brokerage, I would be doing the same thing. I suspect it does cut down on the amount of vendor traffic through their offices.

I'm not saying I like the programs; in fact, I don't. But I don't see it as anything different from paying to advertise anywhere; I'm there with everyone else, and I had to pay to be there, and they pass my name out along with everyone else's. It's just not advertising that I deem worthwhile for my business regarding bang for the buck.

Just giving out a list of names is not a referral; see Massachusetts law regarding that. And woe to the Yellow Pages for referring all those people; I can't wait for the attorneys to sock it to the Yellow Pages for negligent referrals. That's gonna be fun.

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited June 21, 2005).]

Bill Wieczorek
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posted June 21, 2005 08:30 AM            

Russel Said:

"In checking out all the ones that I have (Keller Williams, Coldwell Banker, McMillin, some Prudential offices"

In Illinois Keller Williams permits you to place marketing material in the office without the concierge arrangment. Maybe it was just the one office I visited but they seemed very open to making my marketing material available. I've also placed information in Prudential offices. Maybe they don't use the concierge approach here YET.

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 08:35 AM            

Up until about a year ago, the only ones that were doing it here was Coldwell Banker, and they were doing it on a national basis, not an office-by-office basis. Now I know of many offices that are going to the ABA or PVL systems, and I know of many CREIA, ASHI, and independent inspectors who are being suckered in. Independent inspectors I can understand since they are not members of any trade association and, thus, have no specific Code of Ethics or Standards of Practice to abide by, other than legal statutes, which, of course, are open to interpretation, as is being proven on a daily basis by the brokerages here.

Jerry McCarthy
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posted June 21, 2005 10:48 AM            

Russel

I can't speak for ASHI, but any CREIA member who is on ANY of those preferred vendor lists you quoted is in direct violation of both state law and CREIA's Code of Ethics.
I would like to see that list of CREIA members so I can turn it over to our Ethics Chair.

Jerry M

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 10:59 AM            

-----
This post is about tolerance and acceptance of differing views.

. . . It is offered . . . not as an insult to those with limited ethics.
-----

I've learned in my business career that when someone starts a letter/post/etc. like that, it means just exactly the opposite.

Kind of like the non-apologies where the person doesn't apologize for what he said, but instead offers an apology "if anyone was offended" by what he said.

Yeah, right.

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 11:06 AM            

Hey, Jerry.

As I said, I'm not the home inspector police, nor do I intend to be.

Perhaps you and/or CREIA could write all the brokerages here in California telling them about the law and your interpretation of it. Here in San Diego County, I know of 647 brokerages just with PCR, C21, CB, and REM. Maybe you might even get some replies from their attorneys with their interpretations of it. Who knows?

Maybe if CREIA were to work with CAR, something might get done. I doubt it, though, because the CAR attorneys, as well as all the brokerage attorneys have already analyzed the federal and state legal statutes and have determined that a request for advertising is far different from a request for referral fees, kickbacks, etc.

The only problems I have seen are in the case of Southland Title here, and some cases in Oklahoma and Ohio, where companies were providing kickbacks. But to the best of my knowledge, there are no current lawsuits or anything concerning these types of advertising avenues for Realtors. I agree with their interpretation but have chosen not to use those avenues for my own business.

I do have a partnership with Brinks, as well as many other home services. Those partnerships do subject me to negligent referral lawsuits, but I feel quite comfortable in the quality of the companies that I create partnerships with.

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited June 21, 2005).]

Chad Fabry
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posted June 21, 2005 11:16 AM            

I just read Al's dissertation on ethics in the profession. Here's what I got from it:

People are as honest as the system keeps them.
----------------------------------------------
For future translations from Al or any other poster who employs obscure variations of English, send your cash check or money orders to:

Translations from the insane, mundane, profane, everyone else is to blame, full of disdain writers Association of America.

------------------
OK, I'm done for now, Chad Fabry
StructureSmart Home Inspection Rochester, NY
www.structuresmart.com

[This message has been edited by Chad Fabry (edited June 21, 2005).]

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 11:53 AM            

That's good, Chad. LOL

Richard Moore
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posted June 21, 2005 12:06 PM            

Chad...

That's a little unfair! There was so much more. Here what I got...

People are as honest as the system keeps them, unless they're Dutch.

Kind of depressing. I think I'll stick with my approach that people are honest until proven otherwise. It may be naive and overly optimistic, but I just find life better that way.

RM

Joseph Burkeson
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posted June 21, 2005 12:12 PM            

I just read Al's dissertation on ethics in the profession. Here's what I got from it:

People are not to be trusted and government intervention through increased police actions are our only salvation. I say we chip in and purchase all of the property around Al's house and erect a wall.

Joe Burkeson

Obligatory freedom quote.

Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice. - John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 12:35 PM            

-----
I think I'll stick with my approach that people are honest until proven otherwise. It may be naive and overly optimistic, but I just find life better that way.
-----

That's exactly my approach, Richard. Maybe it has something to do with the West Coast? LOL

Scott Patterson
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posted June 21, 2005 01:11 PM            

Russel, I agree with you on this!

Oh and about the ASHI Quest program. It was released in 2001 and it did not have a good enough response to keep it going so it died quietly.

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posted June 21, 2005 02:27 PM         

In my area, it seems that 8 out of 10 inspectors participate in programs such as this. It's my opinion that these practices are damaging to a reputation of professionalism. I refuse to participate in them.

Now, how about a home inspector's list of pre-approved or preferred real estate agents? It leaves me in amazement that home inspectors would allow the real estate industry to dictate to them. We are fast headed to that place where appraisers find themselves: investigations are popping up all over the place due to inflated appraisals.

Didn't Greenspan suggest the housing bubble was going to burst about 3 years ago? May be we are on the verge ... as a home inspector whose primary interest is consumer education and protection, I don't think I want to be within 10 feet of any realtors when the lightning strikes!

------------------
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Housesmithe Home Inspection

www.housesmithehomeinspection.com

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posted June 21, 2005 02:51 PM            

Thanks for the info on the ASHI QUEST program, Scott.

I knew it sounded too good to be true.

In my mind, something like that available to one's members should be something that had to be paid for. Seems like it would have improved the ASHI membership simply by its mere existence. Does ASHI require payment for absolutely everything? Does it offer its members any benefits that don't have to be paid for after becoming a member?

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posted June 21, 2005 03:13 PM            

Sorry for the thread drift:

Hi Russel,

quote:

---

Does ASHI require payment for absolutely everything? Does it offer its members any benefits that don't have to be paid for after becoming a member?

---

[This message has been edited by Scott Patterson (edited June 21, 2005).]

Russel Ray
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posted June 21, 2005 04:22 PM            

Hmmmmmm. Nothing there that would really encourage me to rejoin considering the cost and the hassle.

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited June 21, 2005).]

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posted June 21, 2005 04:59 PM            

I wasn't holding my breath, it looks like you have found your niche! But you're welcome back at anytime.

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posted June 21, 2005 05:24 PM            

Joe B;

Since your big on quotes, I got one for you. I'm 47 years old, I heard this when I was in grammar school, read into it what you wish....

"A fool always has a greater fool who admires him" unknown

Darren

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posted June 21, 2005 06:21 PM            

Keep in mind that Adams was a lawyer. But he's right. Ethics can't come from government or associations or anywhere but inside the individual.

Reminds me of an old joke. A good looking very well dressed guy asked a girl of similar nature if she would sleep with him for $ 1,000,000. She said sure! He said OK how about $1. She said no, what kind of girl do you think I am?!! His reply was "Honey we have already established that, we're just haggling over the price".

If it doesn't feel right to YOU don't do it. If you ask 20 people if something's ethical you're likely to get 20 different answers.

Bruce

------------------
Make it a great day!

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posted June 21, 2005 07:10 PM            

Bruce Thomas said... "If you ask 20 people if something's ethical you're likely to get 20 different answers."

Well, if you are asking merely to inquire on where they stand on a particular issue so be it, but if you are asking to determine current consensus so you may take action on a decision you are struggling with, you most likely already know the real ethical answer.

Joe Burkeson

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posted June 21, 2005 07:14 PM            

Huh?

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posted June 22, 2005 02:13 AM            

In other words,

quote:

---

These, then, were the two points I wanted to make. First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in.

---

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posted June 22, 2005 04:39 AM            

This was written earlier by someone...

quote:

---

"If it were so "clearly" an unfair business practice, I suspect there would be only one or two minor players doing it. Instead, we have Prudential, Coldwell Banker, Keller Williams, etc., doing it. Those are major players, folks. They all have big-time attorneys on board who analyze those things.

---

[This message has been edited by Richard Rushing (edited June 22, 2005).]

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posted June 22, 2005 06:46 AM            

One of the better interpretations put forth, which my attorneys and I discussed when I was seriously looking at the programs four years ago, and discussed in my letter to Keller Williams last November concerning their invitation to me to join their PVL program, since I was shocked at some of the names already on their PVL.

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited June 22, 2005).]

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posted June 22, 2005 06:55 AM            

Russel:

I don't know what PVL stands for; but why would you be surprised at the names you saw on the list ?

Russel Ray
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posted June 22, 2005 07:02 AM            

Preferred Vendor List.

I was surprised because I had read so much about CREIA and ASHI being dead-set against such programs. Yet there on the PVL were several names that I recognized from CREIA and ASHI. I thought CREIA and ASHI usually did a good job keeping abreast of those types of things, but maybe the temptation is just too great for their inspectors, as well. After all, they, too, are human and need to make a living.

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posted June 22, 2005 07:51 AM            

I place my brochures in Real Estate offices.

I hand out business cards to Realtors.

BUT, of late (since the beginning of the year) I have gotten a great deal of feedback from buyers (most of my referrals come from RE lawyers and mortgage brokers) shy away from agent referred inspectors.

I go to open houses, to check out the housing stock, mostly, but if I happen to run into a potential buyer and the ask what I do for a living, I give them a card (but I will NOT give them my opinion of the house we are in) and tell them to call me if they ever need an inspector. I have found that a lot of them ask if I know the Realtor shoing the place.

I always answer that I do NOT. I have found that if they think that I work with or even know the Realtor, they will not hire me.

Let's give the home buying public some credit. They know about Realtors hiring 'drive by' inspectors who will not 'kill the deal'.

They also seem to be smartening up and not accepting the same Realtor as the seller has. I am surprised that this same Realtor practice is not already banned. It is a clear conflict of interest. No one whold accept the same lawyer representing both sides in a law suit.

The advesarial relationship also extends to RE transactions, does it not?

------------------
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C:(847) 609-2345

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posted June 22, 2005 06:45 PM            

WOW, this topic really took a left turn when going from beginning to end???????????

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posted November 04, 2005 12:31 PM            

"I think NACHI is a form of adverting, marketing, branding machine of questionable motives."

Very true. Nick Gromicci currently owes Pennsylvania $14,000 in fines for sub code radon work. He has refused to pay them.

NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements.

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posted November 04, 2005 01:14 PM            

I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any "state" recognized associations in Pennsylvania. I think that's part of the problem. The state passed an unfinished law and no financing to enforce what little law there is. The law seems to be kind of a free-for-all, everybody tattle on anyone whom they don't think are following the letter/intent of the law. I think more PA home inspectors spend more time tattling on the competition than they do trying to grow their own companies.

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posted November 04, 2005 01:30 PM            

Quote Russel Ray:

"I was surprised because I had read so much about CREIA and ASHI being dead-set against such programs. Yet there on the PVL were several names that I recognized from CREIA and ASHI. I thought CREIA and ASHI usually did a good job keeping abreast of those types of things, but maybe the temptation is just too great for their inspectors, as well. After all, they, too, are human and need to make a living."

Russel, You cannot always assume someone paid to be on those lists. I know in my case when I lived in Indy, FC Tucker had a PVL list, I was on it. Although many PAID to be on it, I did not. I got on it because some highly regarded Realtors insisted that I be placed on it. All of this occured without my knowledge. I considered it an honor considering many paid to be on it.

As HI's we too often tend to paint all Realtors with the same brush. There are many honest Realtors that genuinely want the best for their clients.

It has been my experience that eventually the dishonest HI's and dishonest Realtors eventually find each other and the same holds true with the honest ones.

As to ASHI, I am finally getting some inspections from their web site. But that may be because I finally got rid of ainspect and got a decent web site.

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posted November 04, 2005 03:11 PM            

Ainspect is pretty bad. They forever have a position on my Top 10 List of worst companies ever.

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posted November 04, 2005 09:14 PM            

quote:

---

Bruce Lunsford
From:Naples, FL
November 04, 2005 12:31 PM

" NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements."

---

Care to substantiate your comments?

From which Pennsylvania State list was NACHI removed?

------------------
HouseMaster Inspection
West Chester, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
http://www.householdinspector.com

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posted November 05, 2005 02:38 AM            

I suspect you're not going to get an answer, Joe.

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posted November 05, 2005 09:30 AM            

I will have to agree with Russel. Ainspect IS one of the worst companies ever. Their response time is pathetic. I am shutting down my website while I reorganize my business. Unfortunately, it is through Ainspect. I have sent them emails, snail mail, and yet no response. There are many great website providers out there, including Hannigan's, just know that Ainspect isn't on of them.

------------------
Ed Porter - NAHI CRI
Cornerstone Home Inspection Services, Inc.
Grand Haven, MI

cshomeinspector.com

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posted November 06, 2005 11:39 AM            

Russel:

I agree.

Not likely that Bruce will respond.

------------------
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posted November 06, 2005 12:29 PM            

http://phic.info/compliant.htm

There is also a news story on one of the TV web sites about it. I just can't find the link.

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posted November 06, 2005 12:32 PM            

Why didn't you think I'd respond? I have nothing to hide.

Fact is NAXHI will NEVER get any respect until it strengthens is rediculous "certification" requirements.

You never see ASHI members have problems with real HI organizations like AII, FABI, and many others.

Statements like "Elite home inspectors" are simply false and misleading advertising.

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posted November 06, 2005 12:35 PM            

Bruce:

You made this Statement.

Please substantiate the Validity of the comment or retract your statement as it is False.

quote:

---

Bruce Lunsford
From:Naples, FL
November 04, 2005 12:31 PM

" NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements."

---

Care to substantiate your comments?

From which Pennsylvania State list was NACHI removed?

---------------------------------------------

------------------
HouseMaster Inspection
West Chester, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
http://www.householdinspector.com

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posted November 06, 2005 01:02 PM            

Perhaps you didn't see the link I provided above.
http://phic.info/compliant.htm

I'll provide it again.

You ever notice how no one picks on the other diploma mill certifications? That's because they don't make false claims like "the worlds elite home inspectors"

Based on what? That 120 question quiz? I took it in less than 40 minutes and got a 99% while watching TV.

Don't believe me? I'd be happy to provide the info so it can be looked up. At that time my email addy was blunsford2@comcast.net you have my name and stuff.

I give you permission to look it up if you can. I don't believe I saved the email, but I could be wrong.

Truthfully, I really want to join NACHI. NACHI does a fantastic job of marketing. They also do a great job of many other things like member benefits.

However, I have a hard time getting by the total lack of morality in the leadership (My opinion). Questionable web tactics, false and misleading statements and so on.

If Nick could go a single day without slamming ASHI and claiming HACHI is better, much of this bickering would stop.

Full ASHI membership has the highest requirements of any HI organization.

NACHI has one of the easiest.

I would joing NACHI if:

Nick paid the $14,000 in fines he owes Pennsylvania for substandard radon work.

They require the NHIE exam for full membership. The current exam should be only for candidate status. It would be very good for that.

NACHI stops making false and misleading claims.

------------------
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posted November 06, 2005 01:06 PM            

I await your reply (holding breath) :-)

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posted November 06, 2005 01:34 PM            

http://phic.info/compliant.htm

This is not a Pennsylvania State List. It is a Private Associational List.

Bruce:

You made the Statement.

Please substantiate the Validity of the comment or retract your statement as it is False.

quote:

---

Bruce Lunsford
From:Naples, FL
November 04, 2005 12:31 PM

" NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements."

---

Care to substantiate your comments?
From which Pennsylvania State list was NACHI removed?

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posted November 06, 2005 02:04 PM            

Bruce:

Substantiating your comment should not be difficult for a 20 year ASHI, FABI veteran Inspector such as yourself.

Profile for Bruce Lunsford
Date Registered: November 04, 2005
Status: Member
Total Posts: 28
Current Email: inspector@swfla.rr.com
Homepage: http://www.ableinspector.com
Business Name: Able Home Inspection
Location: Naples, FL
Membership(s): ASHI, FABI
In Business Since: 1985
-------------------------------------------

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posted November 06, 2005 04:30 PM            

Ahhh, the personal attacks come out. Please show me where I said I have been with ASHI and FABI for 20 years? I actually did my first inspection in 1980, if you want to be exact. I worked for an engineering firm called Alt&Witzig engineering as a field tech.

I have been ASHI since 1992. My FABI membership is pending a vote at the next BOD meeting. So I am only a candidate until then. My ASHI membership automatically qualifies me for FABI membership. Does NACHI membership qualify you for FABI? Just curious :-)

Here is another link that explains very clearly they do NOT meet Pennsylvania standards
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/3405354/detail.html

So, has Nick ever paid the $14,000 fine for his substandard work in Pennsylvania? Just curious :-)

Why are you so proud of an organization you constantly have to defend?

Nobody ever questions ASHI, CREIA, AII, TAREI and a few more.

Again, I really would like to join NACHI, that is the absolute truth. My moral standards would have to be compromised tho, which is something I'm not used to. That is not a slam or an insult. It is just the God's honest truth.

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posted November 06, 2005 04:35 PM            

Let me add, if Nick were to leave, and NACHI would develop more ethical practices, I would join the next day.

There are just far too many ethics problems with the association for me to join.

By ethics I mean brash, misleading statements, "unethical search engine optimization" (A term in a book I just finished.) Unpaid fines, leaving the state to avoid paying the fines, and so on.......

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posted November 06, 2005 05:18 PM            

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce Lunsford
From:Naples, FL
November 04, 2005 12:31 PM
" NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements."

--------------------------------------------

From which Pennsylvania State list was NACHI removed?

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posted November 06, 2005 05:57 PM            

Ok, now I get it. Rather than face the facts, you're trying to play word games.

I was once told by a lawyer friend of mine that when the facts are against you, you are forced to nitpick and act incredulous while doing so. Just constantly distract from the facts as much as possible. You are doing a very good job at that.

It would have been more accurate to say they were found by a judge to not meet the minimum requirements of the state. The quote is:

"A court in Chester County found inspectors belonging to one of the largest associations of home inspectors are not complying with state law. Because of the state's quirky law, there's no one to enforce the court's ruling."

It also would have been more accurate to say that the PHIC, which is a state recognized verifyer of home inspector associations has refused to accept NACHI.

They are clearly an accepted authority of the state of PENN as follows:

"The Pennsylvania Home Inspectors Coalition (PHIC) represents the two nationally recognized inspection organizations that have offered verifiable proof of compliance with ACT 114, so that the Coalition can act as the eyes and ears of the Home Inspection profession within this State."

Either they are lying, or you are misinformed.

Either way, I am done with this. Play word games all you like, my original statement was correct.

Like it or not, PHIC is recognized by the state. Either that, or they are very confused.

Interesting how no one defends good ol' Nick. Care to play word games with those statements?

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posted November 06, 2005 06:19 PM            

Bruce,

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

Rick

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posted November 07, 2005 04:11 PM            

Bruce:

You are clearly misinformed.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce Lunsford
From:Naples, FL
November 04, 2005 12:31 PM
" NACHI has also been removed from the State recognized HI associations in Penn for their low entrance requirements."

--------------------------------------------

From which Pennsylvania State list was NACHI removed?

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posted November 08, 2005 04:45 AM            

No offense Bruce; just stick to your own state(s).

Trust me, I'm not a fan of the other organization (I can't get myself to actually name it); I don't know whats happening in Penn. and I live in Jersey.

There's a (low ranking) member of that organization that lives in mid west? that thinks he knows EVERYTHING thats happening in the entire US (Fla, NJ, CAL) and he really doesn't know squat.

My advise is to stick to your own local situation, let other people discuss their own local areas and be happy.

Let's not get into another organizational squabble, it's getting VERY OLD.

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posted November 12, 2005 08:57 PM            

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posted December 06, 2005 01:58 PM         

Paying to be on any real estate broker's "preferred" list may place the HI in violation of the federal RESPAct. In Michigan, HIs should know that their client will have a claim under the Michigan Consumer Protection Act if they are not told up front, in writing, that they have paid the broker to be on "the list".

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Randy Aldering
Housesmithe Home Inspection

www.housesmithe.com
www.independentinspectors.org
www.michahi.org

Rick Hurst
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posted December 06, 2005 02:06 PM            

These so called preferred lists is just a way the real estates offices get the HI's to help pay for their advertising booklets.

Next time you get one of these calls wanting you to be on a "preffered lists" ask the person if they are an actual agent or a salesperson who is handling the advertising for the office.

Save your money.

Rick

Russel Ray
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posted December 06, 2005 02:41 PM            

My experience with Coldwell Banker and Keller Williams is that the person calling me is always a Realtor who has used me fairly regularly throughout the years. It seems that the office decides to implement a Preferred Vendors list and asks all their agents to think about the vendors that they would like to have on the list. Then they assign those agents the task of asking the vendors to "advertise." Of course, when I decide not to advertise, not only do I not pick up any new business, but those Realtors who once used me no longer do. So it's a lose/lose situation for me: advertise and have Clients perceive a conflict of interest or whatever, or do not advertise and lose all the business that I used to get from at least one Realtor in that office, the one who called me.

Lanny Freng
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posted January 06, 2006 05:38 AM            

I work with 3-4 CB realtors and have never gotten on their "list". If they like your work and your report I believe they can recommend whoever they want to their buyer/seller.

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Lanny A. Freng

MN Valley Home Inspections

"Get the best of US before your new home gets the best of YOU!"

www.mvhi.biz

Rick Hurst
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posted January 06, 2006 07:13 AM            

I believe Larry hit it on the nail. It's if they like your report.

If not, Blacklist you go. Dark is good.

Rick

Dan Cullen
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posted January 06, 2006 08:15 AM            

Good Thread Gentlepeople....nothing to add except an old saying, "I'd rather be occassionally cheated than perpetually suspicious." Oh heck here's another, "Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength."

Denise Canter
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posted January 06, 2006 03:16 PM            

Bill, I applied to their Concierge program. The response was that they had too many inspectors in my area and not enough referrals to go around. They would not give any information on who these companies are, or how much their program costs. Here's why, I think.
I know one of their top executives pretty well, I saw him at a trade show about 3 years ago and asked about getting into their offices, I was told that the owner of Coldwell Banker is best buds with the owner of US Inspect, and I'd be hard pressed to get into any of their programs due to this fact. So, after getting their answer, I went to my local office and asked the sales manager who was on the list. GUESS WHAT? He had no idea, and had no list. None of the agents in the office had ever used the concierge service, so they had no idea who would be referred. So, go to their website and look around. The ONLY home inspection company listed is US Inspect. So, it appears as though my friend knew exactly what he was talking about 3 years ago. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. You can apply, it doesn't bind you to apply, costs nothing. I'd like to see if you get the same reply. My local office allows me to put brochures out in their place, along with about 15 other companies. Long and Foster has gotten really bad about it, too. I looked at their program about 2 years ago, the companies they had posted I wouldn't want to share space with, one of them I know well because we used to both work for sister companies...that guy was a heroine addict and had been fired from everywhere because of it, so he started his own thing, I don't even think he's in business anymore. Those programs are set up to make $$$ for the real estate company by way of fees, the only way L&F has made it work is to remove all brochures and other marketing materials of companies not in their program from their offices and seem to be forcing their agents to refer all clients to the website. They had to do that 'cause the first time they came out with this sort of program it went down in flames. In my area, there's this L&F guy named Irv something or another, he goes office to office and throws away brochures. They wanted big bucks, too. I'm not bothering with that crap anymore, I was just starting out then, I don't have to now. Be patient, it'll come along!

[This message has been edited by Denise Canter (edited January 06, 2006).]

wes owens
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posted January 06, 2006 08:16 PM            

I have Coldwell Banker agents book inspections with me all the time, and not once have any of them ever said anything about any type of program or list.
They do keep telling me how much their clients like my reports and appreciate my thoroughness when doing an inspection.
Maybe it's an area thing.

------------------
Wes Owens
Absolute Home Inspections,LLC

Den Robitaille
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posted January 08, 2006 09:13 PM         

Wes O: stated:

"I have Coldwell Banker agents book inspections with me all the time, and not once have any of them ever said anything about any type of program or list.
They do keep telling me how much their clients like my reports and appreciate my thoroughness when doing an inspection."

Wes, the agents booking appointments with you do not have clients, (they have customers)you have clients, assuming you are working for the buyers.

As long as agents control the inspection selection process, threads like this will continue to come up.

98% of the inspectors fail to think outside of the box. Eliminate the middleman (the agents) from the inspector selection process and this type of thread will cease to exist.

It was done in MA and the groundwork has started in a few other states.

Inspectors For A Free Market Place

Annie-Laurie Hunter
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posted January 09, 2006 10:08 AM            

I have had numerous referrals from Coldwell Banker and never been approached to pay anything to them here in Central New York, But, R-house Realty will only use the 5 people on their "special list". I think they said it was $500 per year but since they already had their 5 special people I couldn't get on it even if I wanted to.

I still talk to their agents but I am not about to pay that kind of money to get on a list like that.

Annie-Laurie Hunter
Ardent Home Inspections

wes owens
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posted January 09, 2006 09:34 PM            

Den said:
"98% of the inspectors fail to think outside of the box. Eliminate the middleman (the agents) from the inspector selection process and this type of thread will cease to exist."

98% of my work right now is from Realtors.
Thats because I'm fairly new and I am in the process of building a client base but it takes time.
I'm sure you started out doing more agent referrals than you do now. Or are you saying that you never do an agent referred inspection? If you do even just one, then you haven't cut out the middle man either.

------------------
Wes Owens
Absolute Home Inspections,LLC

Den Robitaille
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posted January 10, 2006 05:22 AM         

Wes O stated:

"98% of my work right now is from Realtors.
Thats because I'm fairly new and I am in the process of building a client base but it takes time."

Wes, even if most of your client base was comprised of former clients, you would still be adversely impacted by the realtors.

Back around 15 years ago I had booked a client referral for an inspection. A day later he was told by the realtor to cancel out. The agent told him some BS story about me not being qualified to inspect foreclosed properties.

I filed a written complaint to the RE Licensing Board. After a 3 month "investigation" the RE Board came to the decision that there was no violation of the RE licensing law. In so many words they said agents were allowed to work in the best interest of their clients (the property sellers.)

It was at this point that I set out to change the RE Licensing Law.

However, aside from this issue, having agents involved in the inspection process also adversely impacts the money earned by inspectors. When potential clients complained about the "high" fee I quoted them, I asked them why they thought it was high and their answer was almost always "the agent said I could find an inspector for a couple of hundred bucks".

If the agents were not directly involved in the home inspector selection process, two things would happen. 1. Inspection fees would go up. 2. "Realtor speak" inspectors, incompetent inspectors and inspectors who don't deliver a worthwhile service for the buyer would eventually be out of work.

Here in MA both of those things have already occurred.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/112-87yy.5.htm
http://www.independentinspectors.org/

[This message has been edited by Den Robitaille (edited January 10, 2006).]

Steve Smith
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posted February 26, 2006 10:25 PM            

NACHI does not allow it.
Most of the Caldwell Banker inspections in my area are being done by NAHI inspectors!!

------------------
Steve Smith
FHA/HUD approved fee inspector

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[This message has been edited by Steve Smith (edited February 26, 2006).]

Jim Vaughn
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posted February 27, 2006 04:18 PM            

Dennis,

<<<<Nothing if you don't mind being sued. http://www.independentinspectors.org/pdf-files/usinspect.pdf >>>>>

thanks for that link. I totally missed this thread (motorcycle trip - priorities...). I couldn't find anything about how the case settled (if it has). Looks like the listing agent is now with a no name realty firm.

Part of the reason I'm replying is so others who might have missed the thread can read through the suit and see what scum sucking pigs some realtors are - not all by any means - some.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Vaughn (edited February 27, 2006).]

Scott Patterson
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posted February 27, 2006 04:29 PM            

quote:

---

Part of the reason I'm replying is so others who might have missed the thread can read through the suit and see what scum sucking pigs some realtors are - not all by any means - some.

---

The same can be said for some home inspectors!

Russel Ray
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posted February 27, 2006 04:30 PM            

And every other profession that exists on Earth.

Bruce Thomas
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posted February 27, 2006 05:47 PM            

If you have ever read a civil complaint, it lays out everything possible on behalf of the complainant. None of it is proven or accepted by the court.

In reading the above complaint it sound bad for the agents and the inspector and everyone else involved. We don't get to read any of the attachments like the inspection report etc.

It looks bad for their side but this is only the beginning and we don't have all of the facts.

To keep a little of the thread in this reply, it's an excellent reason not to pay to be on anyone's list.

I once had a lady take one of my guys reports and use it to write her complaint. Point for point everything in the report was in the complaint. The judge dismissed it but we still had to go and defend it.

If you really want to know about a case you have to wait until it is settled, including all of the appeals and read everything involved.

You can't jump to conclusions based on 10% of the information.

Bruce

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Make it a great day!

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